By Jason Davis - WASHINGTON DC (Feb 17, 2011) US Soccer Players -- In 2009, the Seattle Sounders set new standards for a Major League Soccer franchise. By drawing the biggest crowds in the modern professional era and sustaining them over the course of an entire season, the Sounders did more to give the sport legitimacy in America than almost anything else MLS had managed in the previous fourteen years.
Seattle felt like a culmination of so much that came before them, a story written on the backs of “less successful” clubs who defied conventional wisdom by sticking around through some very lean years. Loyal fan bases in longstanding MLS cities, who had willed an American soccer league into stability with consistent support when America was the ultimate soccer backwater, watched from afar as the Sounders, by virtue of their grand entrance, single-handedly announced the arrival of MLS 2.0.
Seattle exploded on the scene in such a bombastic and perfectly coordinated way that it turned off many longtime MLS fans. This expansion team, with their marching band, celebrity ownership, and resplendently large and visible fan base that made every other team’s look paltry in comparison, had the feel of an boisterous interloper. While no one could argue with the success, the nature of Seattle’s splash appeared engineered and corporate. The NFL stadium that actually fit, the odd “Rave Green” jerseys, the Microsoft connections (natural as they may be) - all of it put the Sounders on a level, in their first season, that other MLS clubs either took years to reach or still haven’t managed to approach.
The Sounders were an American soccer Athena, springing forth fully-formed into Major League Soccer. Even though a version of the Sounders had existed in the second division, a sense of continuity is largely missing. From attendances around 5,000 a match prior to their promotion to numbers in excess of 30,000 as an MLS club, the Sounders success was, for lack of a better and less loaded term, “manufactured.”
Major League Soccer’s newest team, the Portland Timbers - coincidentally the Sounders’ southern neighbors and most hated rivals - represent a contrast, at least in outward appearance.
Like Seattle, the Timbers are a club with a legacy from the original North American Soccer League and a recent history in the second division, but have an image diametrically opposed to that of the Sounders. An attendance record better than many top-flight clubs and a supporters groups famous for their rabid fandom - a reputation gained before the possibility of moving up to MLS was even a dream - give Portland the resume of a club that truly “earned” their expansion spot.
As the club prepares to launch itself into Major League League in just over a month, the only things that will distinguish the MLS Timbers from their D2 iteration is a renovated stadium, snazzier uniforms, and a more sophisticated approach to marketing.
Portland’s rise in prominence has been a steady climb, rather than the sharp spike achieved by Seattle. The Timbers rest solidly on the foundation of an organically spawned fan culture that sees itself as anti-Sounders, anti-corporate and more “authentic” than that of their rivals. The club's management has centered its marketing efforts around the fans themselves, promoting a culture that predates MLS. The Sounders didn’t have that same luxury, but excelled in creating a wave of interest and passion impressive by any standard in any sport.
The dichotomy in tenor adds to the rivalry. Fans will debate which club has more passionate support, with history, attendance numbers, etc. all factors. The “authenticity” of each club’s approach will be a point of contention not only now, but moving forward. In a country where soccer legitimacy can be hard to come by, Sounders vs. Timbers, as much an off-the-field contrast as an on-the-field battle, is a intriguing case study in American club personality. Does Portland’s grassroots, organic and “authentic” feel (i.e, projecting the image of a club moving up from a lower division) give MLS more credibility, or is Seattle’s modern success story, accomplished with a more universally-applicable approach, something the League can replicate elsewhere?
The Timbers show every sign of being a success in their first MLS season. Naturally paired with the Sounders up the coast, they are set to provide the League with an additional dose of elusive legitimacy, both singularly and as part of the new Pacific Northwest hotbed. How the heated rivalry between the Sounders and Timbers will play out on the field now that both clubs are in MLS is just part of the coming story. Of equal interest, especially to the MLS leadership in New York as they plot the future growth of the League, is how the dichotomy of style plays out.
Despite their differences, both clubs are “doing it right” because the only thing that really matters is the bottom line. Full stands, proper atmospheres, and communities actively engaged in their local professional soccer team are few enough to be precious, no matter their accompanying flavor.
We should celebrate both the Timbers and the Sounders. While they themselves actively pursue a virulent rivalry (and perhaps in part because of that fact), because their side-by-side success shows that soccer clubs in the United States aren’t restricted to a single blueprint.
As the old cliche goes, beggars can’t be choosers. Not only is “authenticity” in the eye of the beholder, it’s a distraction that can too often lead to dangerous over-thinking and comical miscalculation. Authenticity, as Seattle and Portland are in the midst of proving, isn’t assumed through a series of predetermined steps. For Major League Soccer, that's a very good thing.
Viva diversity.
Jason Davis is the founder of MatchFitUSA.com. Contact him: matchfitusa@gmail.com. Follow him on Twitter: http://twitter.com/davisjsn.
I appreciate the author’s perspective.
As a long time Portland fan, I can attest to the fact that the above poster has no idea what they are talking about. I certainly don’t begrudge Seattle their success, but to say we’re the same type of corporate entity is tantamount to making up whatever you want and calling it real. I’m not exactly sure how our owner Merritt Paulson is a Seattle based company, that news will come as a surprise to the Timbers Army.
Jason Davis is serving fan culture well with this type of analysis and his rebuttal to the British GQ piece. A diverse fan culture serves us fans well.
Give him a break, Hermes. Chances are VERY good the above poster wasn’t even aware Seattle had a team before they went to MLS, and therefore doesn’t know any different.
Oh and the reason some might say “Seattle has the better beer” is because we don’t share the good stuff with anyone else.
Then there is poor Vancouver, nary a word. Always the red-head stepchild in the Portland-Seattle rivalry. Trying to scream out “HEY! We’re up here, too!”
As a Timbers supporter since the USL return (even went to a few NASL matches as a kid,) but a fairly “light” supporter (never sat in 107, the shame!) I always looked forward to the Vancouver matches more than the Seattle ones. Vancouver’s supporters always felt more like “distant kin” than enemies. The matches against Vancouver always felt more like good natured (but loud and bawdy nonetheless) ribbing than threats and anger.
Manufactured, or not, tradition has to start somewhere. Whether Seattle’s rise is a product of clever marketing, or grassroots effort, I can’t deny that the atmosphere is the one true litmus test that dictates what looks and feels genuine.
Looking at Seattle games, I feel a great sense of pride that our little MLS league might be poised for a breakout in the American sports landscape. It might not be today, or next year or five years from now, but it looks like people are starting to care about our sport in large numbers.
And when people start to care, then it gives us all the authenticity that we want, as fans, others outside our realm to understand.
I don’t really care how Seattle managed to draw that crowd, but as long as the locals keep loving their team, I believe that it benefits us all.
I don’t get it but everytime I read these articles I feel there is a major ommission. Per Capita Washington state has the most youth soccer players in the country. It’s been that way for a while. This is the single most important factor to the success of the sounders in Seattle.
I used to go to games all the time when I was younger with my parents and always told myself I’d buy season tickets when they went pro. This wasn’t some manufactured thing in Seattle it was just a matter of time.
What a crock article. The Timber Army is nothing more than a drinking club that has their meetings at Timbers soccer games. Most of these “rabid fans” don’t have the first clue about how the game is played or even the basic rules. Sure they drew more fans to their second division club games. What the heck else is there to do in Portland for entertainment? Sure there are a lot of new fans in Seattle. There will also be alot of new fans in Portland. They just won’t be enticed cheap beer anymore
I’m just happy we got that Portlandia reference out of the way in the first post.
Portland is a joke
I love that this article presumes and implies that Portland identifies itself by comparing itself to Seattle and declaring itself more organic and original. I’ve heard my friends who live in and around Portland tell me that the most annoying thing about living there are the Portland Hipsters. Skinny jeans, a refusal to bathe, and the attitude that they are special simply because they have their own “style.” I can’t help but see the obvious similarity between Portland Hipsters and the TA.
But ultimately, if Portland sells out its game all year long, it’s great for all of us. Even those of us in Seattle. I just wish Portland would stop lobbing insults at the Sounders because it makes Portland look small. Yes, Sounders management decided to have a band. And guess what – they are not a vital part of the game day experience. The best part of the game day experience in Seattle are the cheers that originate from the ECS and have naturally spread throughout the stadium. The Sounders front office has nothing to do with this. There is no crowd noise pumped in. The parts of the game day atmosphere that really matter have been created by the fans and the supporters groups.
Just accept that fact that Seattle is a major league town – we historically suck at supporting minor league sports in our city. That’s really all it boils down to. Portland, you guys are great at supporting minor league and major league sports, and good on you for that. But that’s why Seattle has supported the MLS Sounders so well, and the USL Sounders so poorly.
What the writer of this article failed to catch about Seattle is that many of these “new” fans were really “old” fans from the NASL days. Kids then, adults now with their kids in tow, are a big factor in the Sounders fan make up. Kind of the perfect storm of timing for Seattle.
Many of the “new” Sounders fans sat in the Kingdome and enjoyed the game back in the day. I remember games where that ugly dome was essentially sold out for soccer.
I wish Portland and Vancouver the best of success on the pitch and in the stands. The stronger the cities the longer the league will last. I love me some Sounder Soccer, but I want to make sure the game stays local. So best wishes to Portland and Vancouver, may your stands be full and your games be great.
How quickly they forget … just before moving up to MSL, the USL Sounders won the USL Cup in 2007 and made a couple deep runs in the US Open Cup around that time as well. Huge crowds, plenty of “organic” enthusiasm. Manufacture that.
This article’s premise is incorrect and makes no sense. The Seattle Sounders had a loyal fan base and great success on the field that lead directly to their success in MLS. The team has basically operated continuously in the A-League and then USL since the mid-90s. The USL Seattle Sounders consistently drew relatively large crowds relative to the quality of the soccer, had a great rivalry with the Vancouver 86ers/Whitecaps because there was no Timbers team to play against until 2001. They competed very well in the US Open Cup against MLS teams, won four championships and team players went on to play in MLS, Europe and with the USMNT. When the Sounders started their first MLS season they had a number of guys from the former USL team on the roster, think Le Toux, Levesque, Nyassi, Eylander, etc. The owner of the Seattle Sounders is an owner of the new team and also the GM. I just don’t understand where this guy is coming from. Of course Portland’s approach has been the same and that is why they likely will be successful, although Seattle is still going to beat them twice this year.
Interesting piece, but a bit off on the attendance references.
Portland’s USL attendance has not rivaled top flight clubs, although they showed terrific increases over the past 4 years. They hovered around the 6,000 mark before starting their rise to over 10,700 last year. And let’s not bring in San Jose or KC for comparative purposes as they’ve been playing in bandboxes.
From 2000-2008, Seattle reached the 4,000+ mark just once, making their fabulous success all the more remarkable.
Someone has been watching too much Portlandia. Organic vs. corporate. Ha. Of course the Timbers would have better attendance records, they never had to compete with MLB. Those 5k per game in the Sounders’ pre-MLS days were revolving out of a much larger pool of fans splitting time with the Mariners. The support was always there in Seattle. Pull your head out.
Of course the Timbers would have better attendance records, they never had to compete with MLB. Those 5k per game in the Sounders’ pre-MLS days were revolving out of a much larger pool of fans splitting time with the Mariners.
Interesting point. I’ve got a theory that some of the shared markets unknowingly helped MLS when the baseball teams raised prices.
How could the Sounders have “manufactured” their fans/gameday experience?. Is the implication that they went out and paid people to attend the games ? As an earlier poster pointed out….. washington state has more people playing soccer than just about any other state. There is a strong interest in soccer and always has been dating back to NASL. The fact that these people chose to not turn out in HUGE numbers to watch the USL doesn’t matter. The fact is that before a ball was kicked or before we knew what it would be like in the stadium, we had over 20,000 people sign up for season tickets. Personally, I don’t like the band either but I also don’t like the stupid portland git with his chainsaw cutting a tree. Tell me how exactly that is authentic ! Portland – stop whining, stop copmparing yourselves to the Sounders and get on with supporting your team and creating your own identity.
As a few people have mentioned, this article states that the Seattle atmosphere, marketing, etc…is all manufactured, and in a sense, new and somewhat fake. As a true Seattlelite, it is quite obvious to me that the writer has no clue about the history of futbol in Seattle. Cause pretty much everything he said is completely false. Do a little research before you decide to write something like this, Mr. Journalist.
Click on Hermes name up above and get a feel for Portland Football “culture”. Immature men glorifying alcoholism and vulgarity. Yeah…. more of that, PLEASE!!!!
I’m sad to report that the Timbers fans get Newcastle Brown in their stadium… So, they do win in the beer category.
Thats all they get a win in. Go Sounders!
P.S. – If I recall correctly, the first time that Portland sold out a game was when they played the Sounders in the US Open Cup in 2009. Why is that? Oh, just a massive migration of Sounders fans. Hey Portland, you’re welcome.
Contrary to popular belief Seattle fans always knew about the Sounders, the difference is Portland only had one professional sports team in the Trail Blazers, who lets face it after the Drexler years and before Nate McMillin got their weren’t a very exciting team to watch other then who might get arrested.
Seattle had actual legit professional teams in the Mariners, and the Seahawks that compete for the sports dollar. Plus the UW is a lot closer to Seattle then say Eugene is to Portland.
So when you combine all those facts and that Seattle still shattered the attendance records for MLS in the first 2 years. I think it’s safe to assume there are real soccer fans in Seattle.
Portland will be the 2nd best fan base in the country, and don’t let them get you with the “Our business plan and potential isn’t close to as good as Seattles so we’re more authentic.”
I like that Portland represented well in the USL, but just face it, there aren’t that many professional teams vying for the sports fans dollars.
Too often these “compare and contrast” articles about Seattle and Portland tend to miss the mark.
Discussions of attendance focus too narrowly on the most recent USL past, ignoring broader trends. Most of all, too much effort is spent creating false evidence of meaningless points of “authenticity” so that what’s really manufactured is the article itself.
The real history is that first division soccer has always had great support in Seattle. The overwhelming popularity of the MLS Sounders happened when the ownership, admittedly belatedly and somewhat against their will, tied together that history with the popularity of ‘top level’ soccer in the city.
You’re quite right, however, that Seattle studied the rest of the league to build that success, most of all by being able to know how to create that impression that MLS is ‘top level’. Actually, the band, golden scarf girls, and glitter are very counterproductive to creating that image, and so the popularity of soccer here is in spite of such silly things, not because of them.
Portland’s history is one of following in Seattle’s footsteps, and adapting what Seattle has done to fit their smaller population base and culture. This isn’t a pejorative, it’s simply fact. Portland also has the advantage of having a history of happily accepting and supporting second division soccer. This is a blessing and a curse – they’re more tolerant of a losing team, but also will hold their ownership more accountable for things like a change to the badge.
Finally, as others have mentioned, leaving Vancouver out of the discussion makes things too two dimensional . It also makes it appear like Seattle is the ONLY lens through which Portland views the world, when that isn’t entirely the case.
Oh, and I’d much rather drink my ‘inauthentic’ Brougham Bitter than Portland’s Newcastle.
Seattle has always been an exceptionaly large soccer playing community. The recent Sounders’ entry in the MLS is tapping into that motherload.
I don’t get it. People in Seattle just like soccer. And I grew up watching the Sounders at memorial stadium. Most people just wanted to wait until the Sounders joined the MLS before they started going to games. I just don’t get the premise that you can “buy” soccer fans. People in Seattle aren’t dumb. They just like soccer.
wow, out of all the articles ever written here on this site I believe this one has received the most comments. Who would have thought this article would have set off such a firestorm
Sounders fan and season ticket holder here. Just wanted to reiterate what many have said before. Seattle is a soccer community. It just is. I attended NASL Sounder games as a kid, played in local recreation leagues, and have played in the co-rec leagues as an adult. It is just a part of the fabric of the community. When the MLS Sounders came of the scene, all those fans just stepped up. It was not manufactured. The author of this article obviously knows nothing about the organziation or the community here. I completely respect the Timbers Army and Portland fans, and look forward to the rivalry games. I attended a handful of USL Portland v. Seattle matches, and the TA is no joke. They are true fans, and Seattle fans respect that. I would hold up the ECS (I am not a member) as some of the most hard core fans in the entire country, so I’m not trying to sell the Sounders faithful short. I just don’t get the point of the article. The Sounders success is not manufactured and Portland’s club and supporters are not more authentic. They are just two unique circumstances; stop trying to label them!!
Yup. I think 26 replies is great. Just leave it to Seattle and Portland fans to throw mud at each other to create discussion.
The final thing to get out of this is that people care about their teams.
Let’s be happy about that.
I think this one might have gotten the most comments: /2008/09/eleven-issues-f.html Although I seem to remember another one that had more.
The author is right though: All those screaming fans at the Sounders games are really just hardcore marching band and Microsoft fans. Good job by those powerful celebrity owners using their powerful celebrity appeal to lure 30k fans to every game. Who knows where the Sounders would be if the host of the Price is Right wasn’t a minority owner, or our jerseys weren’t that crazzzzzy green. I mean jeez, there might only be 100 people at the games without all that slick marketing. I mean, don’t get me wrong, at least we would be truly authentic. I just wish less people would come so we could fit in and be cool like the rest of the league, and obviously Portland.
Using a word such as “manufactured” just kills me.
What was manufactured about how quickly the Sounders got to 20,000 season tickets without a single marketing blitz? NOTHING
What was manufactured about having the highest % participation in soccer leagues in the USA? NOTHING
What was manufactured about having the largest travelling supporters contingent in all of MLS? NOTHING
True and true, brother.
I’d go a little further: anyone thinking Seattle’s enthusiasm for top-level soccer is somehow “manufactured” is ignorant of Seattle soccer history, and by extension, US pro soccer history.
It’s nice that Portland have supported their semipro club, but the fact is they don’t have many other options.
So NYRB brings in Henri and somehow gets him on the ballot for Best Newcomer.
LAG capitulates to Beckham at every turn and he is, to quote Garber “The face of the league.”
SSFC builds a solid if not quite championship-caliber team, leads the league in attendance from day 1 but because a minority owner hosts a game show and our kit sponsor is the largest employer in the area we’ve somehow “manufactured” our support?
Yeah, we “manufactured” nearly 15,000 season ticket holders before the name of the team was even announced. I wish the rest of the league was as good at manufacturing as we apparently are.
Oh, and the reason the NFL stadium actually fits, stupid fake grass aside, is that we as a community had the foresight to stipulate it be appropriate for soccer as well as football as a condition for being built.
If anything was manufactured it was BS in this article, you might want to do a little research next time. Reporters used to do it all the time.
More like “How quickly you revise history.”
Yes, the Cup win happen, but the “huge” crowds is total B.S. Never, repeat, NEVER happened. 99% of all Sounder fans never knew there was a USL team.
This is just like all the other unoriginal “Seattle is manufacturered fanbase” posts and/or articles out there that are a dime a dozen and also a bunch of dribble. Do yourself a favor and spend more time pumping up your own fanbase by writing about your team instead.
@Kyle, the only reason why there are so many comments is because someone shamelessly posted this on the Seattle Sounders facebook page. To quote Super Troopers: “Despiration is a stinky colonge”
No Equal.
Manufactured may be the wrong term, but Seattle Sounders fans are clearly frontrunners. I spoke to many Sounders fans at the 2009 US Open Cup in Portland and most of them had no clue about the history of their own club. Soccer support for them started in 2009 because they think they invented it.
No equal? No clue.
Well, lets see. The arguments being made by Sounders fans include:
- We don’t like the band, but it is there
- We have high per capita soccer players
- We’ve always supported 1st division soccer
- Timbers Army is just a big drinking group
Let me addressed each in kind quickly. I guess the fans in Seattle have no power or sway over their Seahawks/Vulcan dominated FO. We all know the NFL is very organic…
Utah has the highest youth soccer participation. Didn’t translate into the best crowds until they got a winning team and stadium. Dallas has the best rated youth clubs in the US, does that equal crowds? Same with the NY area. Seattle is an aberration.
You’ve just maligned Division 2 soccer by claiming you’ll support only top soccer, not just any professional soccer. Exactly why Portland can lay claim to Soccer City USA. Not in size, but consistent support.
Timbers Army, you are one if you say you are. Egalitarian in approach and can actually get the attention of their FO. Can’t say the same happens for ECS. I guess pub culture is a negative way to approach soccer.
Just live with it. An observer notices these things and recognizes the value in both. Portland’s growth was organic. Seattle didn’t get into MLS because of USL play, it was an owner with pockets.
What a load of crap! Only a true self righteous, self centered and egotistical fan base would claim their fandom is more aunthentic. The goal to elevate our beloved sport around the country and in our communities not prove how authentic we are. Truly absurd!
Another important point that the author leaves out is that Portland entered the A-League in 2001 on the backs of a renovated stadium. Yes, in 2001, the Albuquerque Dukes of the PCL moved to Portland to become the newest iteration of the Portland Beavers, under the auspices of a major upgrade to Civic Stadium. In fact, if I remember correctly, this renovation cost more than the current renovation to the the stadium. In order to sell the cost of these renovations to the city council, the baseball owners were forced to find ways to fill more play dates. And that is how the Timbers were born. They were owned by a baseball team (and eventually a baseball league) and came in with a stadium re-grand-opening in the trendy part of the city. The city government had a vested interest in promoting the team because they were invested financially in the success of the stadium venture.
Contrast this with the Sounders who entered the APSL/A-League in 1994 to play in Memorial Stadium, a decrepit stadium owned by the school district with old astroturf, football lines, a narrow playing surface, and wooden bleachers falling apart of covered in bird poop. And try using the bathrooms: stalls with no doors, pee on the floors, pig troughs. Any fans who came to watch the Sounders play under these conditions should be respected as passionate supporters of the sport in this country. Furthermore, the school district never did the Sounders any favors, and the city government did not promote the team.
Another point the author leaves out is that the Sounders time in the APSL/A-League was a pioneering time for American soccer. This was when the groundwork was laid for what we have today. In similar fashion to the trends of MLS teams in the 1990′s, attendance started off well but was not sustainable. The rules were still being tinkered with, the stadium situation(s) was/(were) not ideal, and the league was not stable. When Portland came into the A-League in 2001, they came in on the backs of teams like the Sounders, Whitecaps/86′ers, Montreal Impact, Rochester Rhinos, Minnesota Thunder, Milwaukee Rampage, and Charleston Battery. These teams kept the second division afloat and gave Portland a league to play in.
Wow..
Flounder is getting all bent.
Maybe not everybody is down with confetti shooting cannons, marching bands and piped in “atmosphere”.
It’s hilarious that many of you actually have a reason why you totally ignored and or just didn’t give a sh*t about your squad back in the USL days, but now are incredible passionate fans. Sounders till I die since 2009.
Nobody down here is trying to compare themselves to you, if anything we’re trying to separate ourselves as far away from you as possible. We didn’t need MLS and front office supplied scarves to get us to go to matches, do all the attendance math you want.
People outside of Cascadia notice stuff like that and you get all butt hurt, shocked. Whatever works up there to get asses in the seats I guess.
Get it straight flounder, we’ve don’t care about you, we don’t want to be you, it’s funny that it’s you that tell us to get an identity, whatever flounder. Love the Portlandia references, that’s witty.
God I love Seattle. We’re better than Portland at everything, but we don’t feel the need to write thousands of articles explaining why we’re more “real” or “authentic” or “less manufactured” than our counterparts.
Portland, stick to your grouphome commune-produced spinach smoothies and quinoa-flavored utopia that smells like body odor and dredlock wax, and I’ll stick to my nice house in Ballard where people live in the real world, have real lives and jobs, and aren’t completely into the smell of their own farts.
@Charolastra
If Portlandia references aren’t “witty” enough for you, how do you justify your use of “Flounder”? Secondly, who cares if people didn’t give a sh*t about Sounders in the USL days. It was a boring ass product on the field. Now it’s a higher quality and people care. PLus it’s a totally different team. Seems like a no brainer to me why there are new fans… what point are you making?
Also, you clearly “care about” Seattle, and how they’re compared/contrasted to Portland, or you wouldn’t be scouring the internet for sites like this to comment on like I’m doing right now.
Hey folks Timbers will have the largest supporters section in the league by far! NASL days Timbers set attendance records. USL days Timbers at or near top of the league in attendance. Portland is a huge soccer town and has some of the most loyal fans!
Just putting it out there that, the stadium Seattle played in while they were in USL was Starfire, which has a capacity of 4,500. They put bleachers on the other side to accommodate more fans. Sounds like they had as many fans as possible to me….
And idk if this has been touched on yet in other posts, but the first poster is referring to Alaska Airlines(a Seattle based company) being Portland’s sponsor. Portland fans should know that Merritt Paulson is their owner, not sponsor..
Seattle’s “5k per game” average in USL was a complete joke. They’d paper their games and would still only draw an announced 3,500 per game with maybe 2,000 actually there. They’d boost the numbers with one doubleheader with a USMNT game or something and use that to even out the rest of their season. Anyone who actually went to games during that era can attest that it’s true.
The point that Sounders “fans” are just disappointed Mariners fans is part and parcel of the argument. If the Mariners weren’t so abysmally inept and could actually chase a pennant, you’d wonder if you’d start to see some holes in Sounders identicrowd.
Seattle is built on support that’s a mile wide and an inch deep. ECS is too petrified to stand up to their front office to make sure an actual supporter culture can be built. So the real question is how long until the sheen wears off and what happens then? How long until the next big thing comes along and all of these lifelong fans since 2009 get distracted? How long until a string of losses means refunded tickets aren’t enough to soothe customers who tie their fandom to wins and season ticket sizes?
Just putting it out there that, you’re wrong. Seattle played less than a handful of games at Starfire each season. The vast majority of games in the A-League and USL era were played at Qwest.
Here’s the crowd, in Qwest, for Portland-Seattle in 2007.
link to farm2.static.flickr.com
I invite you to notice that your front office had the foresight to separate the Pod from the rest of your soccer mom fans.
And here’s just the Timbers Army for the return match, also in 2007, at PGE Park.
link to timbers.soccercityusa.com
So playing that line reveals you as a guy who doesn’t even know the history of his own team and parrots the defensive, self-pitying lines fed to him. So…well played there?
I think it’s not a stretch to say that the Timbers and Whitecaps entry into the league will be helpful – although the griping back and forth between fanbases can get a little old.
Also, great beer can be had in the entire NW region – to my taste, far superior to Newcastle Brown!
I went to only a few games back in the USL days, and all of them I went to were at Starfire. I made that statement simply on experience. I’m only 16 btw, so how much history of the A-league do you really think I know? Does that make me manufactured? No, I’m just too young to have known.
Btw even though idk if this is true or not, the pictures you showed of the Qwest Field game are terrible. There could be double the amount of fans that are shown that arent in the picture. While you show all the fans in Portland’s stadium.
D5ve is incorrect. The Sounders played 8 seasons at Memorial Stadium (1994-1998, 2000-2002), 1 season at Renton Stadium (1999), 5 seasons at Qwest Field (2003-2008), and 1 season at Starfire (2009). Thus, they played the majority of the time at decrepit Memorial Stadium. It was at Memorial Stadium where most of the burgeoning fan base was turned off.
If you can manage to lay off the smack for even a millisecond and consider the reality on the ground between the years 1994 and 2000 for soccer in America, and then couple that with the Sounders playing the in the craphole that was Memorial Stadium, you will then understand one of the main reasons why attendance slowly eroded to what it was by the time the Timbers entered the league. When the Sounders started in 1994, they averaged more than the Timbers managed to get until the year that the Sounders gained their MLS spot in 2007. So make of that what you will, but you don’t see Sounders fans scouring the internet screaming about how we were better fans back in 1994 than the Timbers were until 2007.
Another point to consider is that when the Sounders moved to Qwest Field in 2003, most people were disappointed that we weren’t ALREADY in MLS. In fact, getting Qwest Field built was a stipulation by MLS made back in 1998 to gain a spot in MLS for the 2002 season. That promise was broken when Don Garber became commissioner. Yes, there were economic realities for the reneging, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t FURTHER sour the fan base after years of slogging it out at Memorial Stadium.
Then, there was the hope in 2004 of gaining a spot for the 2005 season. We were CERTAIN that we’d get it this time. But out of nowhere comes …. Salt Lake City? Now, alls well that ends well, as RSL is a good franchise. But at the time, it was another WTF moment for the fan base. MLS had been dangled in front our faces since 1994, when the league was first being fleshed out. The Sounders had to carry this albatros with them throughout their D2 tenure.
And that doesn’t even go into how the old FO threatened to sue supporters for making scarves back in the seasons before Portland even entered the league. The new FO, which is basically Adrian Hanauer who took over in 2002, had to correct a lot of mistakes from the prior FO that alienated a lot of supporters.
Despite all that strife, the Sounders managed to average about 3,500 in their USL years. The Timbers, prior to the departure of the Sounders to MLS, averaged about 6,500 in their USL years. Now, putting everything into perspective, including the silver platter that Portland was handed in 2001 (soccer more popular, brand new stadium, government boosters), how can anyone draw some nebulous conclusions about Portland fans being more “authentic”? That is only a difference of 3,000 people, who had the luxury of going to a brand new downtown stadium, never having to move stadiums, and enjoying deeply discounted beer for half of their home schedule.
That last sentence should read “… had the luxury of starting off in a brand new downtown stadium …” The Sounders, of course, finally got our brand new downtown stadium in Qwest Field, but by the time we got it, the fan base had already been dicked around quite a bit.
The bottom line is that the TA is way too self-congratulatory. As evidenced by their rhetoric here, they feel that they are far more important than the club on the field. Rarely, if ever, will you hear a TA member talking about the actual soccer team in Portland. It’s always about the “look at us” factor. We did this and we did that. Who gives a F**k?
The USL Sounders generally played at Starfire in Tukwila which caps out at around 4,500 and is half an hour to an hour south of the city depending on traffic.
The reality is the USL Sounders couldn’t much increase their attendance, but also were very much an afterthought in the overall sports landscape of the city.
You could have just said “When the going gets tough, Sounders fans stay home.”
The Timbers changed hands 4 times in 7 years. They were, for a time, owned by the Pacific Coast League. They played on a carpet that was purposely kept flat because the baseball team liked the fast turf. In 2006, our team payroll was 1/2 of Seattle’s. We played with a squad of practically PDL all stars. Yet we managed to grow our attendance that season.
Everyone at that level has a thoroughly depressing sob story. Some supporters press on and build something remarkable out of it instead of staying home and pouting about it. But you were telling me about Sounders ’till you die?
As for the kid, the pic shows you the sum total of the Sounders crowd since the opposite half of the field was closed on match day. While the other pic with “all the fans” was just the Timbers Army; I didn’t even include a picture of the PGE main stand. Learn your history, son.
D5ve proves my point. It’s all about the TA and the team isn’t even an afterthought. Gosh you TA guys are cool.
Sorry, mate, I’m bad at investing my entire sense of self-worth into the performance of a team I can’t control. I’d be a terrible Sounders supporter. Why, I wouldn’t even ask for a refund just because my team lost. But go on bragging about how awesome Manboobs FC is. I promise we won’t laugh when that house of cards goes tumbling down.
Wow, methinks all these Sounders fans doth protest too much.
The bottom line is when the Sounders started their marketing campaign for the inaugural season (the well executed “Scarf Seattle” campaign) they had to use this billboard image (link to soundersfc.com) which is basically 3 models and paint imagery. Why? Because they didn’t have anything to go on.
By contrast the Timbers entire marketing campaign is built on folks who have been Timbers supporters and standing in the North End for a decade like Abe here: http://www.portlandtimbers.com/sites/portlandtimbers.com/files/imagecache/620×350/image_nodes/2010/12/Abe.jpg
That is what this author is referring too. Seattle had to create something out of nothing (which gave them freedom) whereas Portland knew they had to both honor the past, celebrate the present and attract new folks. Both are means to an end. And both are/will be successful I just prefer to be supporting a club that believes in it’s history, embraces the past and the future and understands fans aren’t just marketing tools for TV/Brochures but need to be respected/consulted and embraced.
Just the difference in the relationships between the supporters organizations and their respective front offices is very telling.
@Glen – read up. Nonsense. The Sounders played one season at Tukwila in 2008. They played at Qwest from 02-07 and drew less than 3k a game. You are just another new customer who doesn’t even know his own teams history.
Who said anything about self-worth? You seem to feel that you and your drunken buddies are more important than the club you supposedly support. You don’t support the club at all. You support you and your drunken buddies. BTW, nobody asked for a refund.
Jeremy is incorrect. The Sounders used imagery and video clips of past players and teams in action from the 2007 announcement and into the run up to the 2009 MLS season, and still do for various in marketing efforts. Also, the “scarf Seattle” campaign was launched after the team had already secured over 20,000 season ticket deposits from people who needed no marketing campaign (or photos of themselves holding an axe).
Jeremy is incorrect again. The Sounders played some games at Starfire in Tukwila in other seasons than the 2008 season, but they did make it their home stadium for 2008. One such example of a non-2008 game was the USL Final in 2007 where the fans invaded the field after the victory. Some of our fans were also young kids back then, probably being taken to the games by their parents, so they don’t remember every single detail of our history perfectly. And yeah, some people are brand new to paying money to watch domestic professional soccer. This is a GOOD THING which you seem keen on disparaging, and thus I expect you to harass all those new Timbers fans accordingly since you don’t seem too concerned about growing the sport in the U.S.
BTW, I find the Timbers fans’ focus on “authenticity” very humorous. From an existential psychology perspective, authenticity is about finding your own way in the circumstances you find yourself in. Authentic individuals are unique and varied and have depth of character. Timbers fans seek to impose a borg-like “authenticity” on their own fans as well as impune any other teams’ fans for not falling in line with the jack-boots. Thus Seattle fans, with all our variety, truly are authentic, while Portland fans by and far seem to have had their development retarded.
@ Paul oh FFS yes I know the Sounders played a few games prior to 08 at Tukwila (I was there) but those were Open Cup or Playoff matches that didn’t count towards the reg season attendance which he was alluding too.
As for “authentic” going by your definition of “finding your own way in the circumstances you find yourself in. “. Thats exactly what the Timbers fan base has done. Starting from 10 folks banging on pickle buckets in 2001 we have grown by 5′s and 10′s and then by dozens and then more and in each year, season, game we were confronted with new things and out of those traditions were forged and bonds were made. Now we have the largest supporters group in the nation (3,000 Season Tickets sold by the Timbers Army in the TA section – nobody comes close) It takes a decade to do that. Not a year. There is a reason why we have the relationship with our FO that you do not. There is a reason they trust us to sell tickets while your FO reams you through ticketbastard. Relationships formed through the test of time and fire are AUTHENTIC ones. Ones based on $$$ are not.
Kyle, this article received a lot of comments because it’s based on one persons opinion filled it with fictional statements that a community with rich and true soccer history has taken offensive. In short, this writer is a moron.
Jeremy, you are once again making things up about Sounders fans. What do you think OUR (that’s everybody’s) relationship is with the FO? And you think every single Timbers fan shares the same relationship with the FO that YOU specifically do? And are you saying that the Sounders supporters groups haven’t grown?
Is it possible for a Timbers fan to make any qualitative statement about themselves or their city or their team without attempting a feeble comparison with some strawman version of “Seattle”? The authenticity I speak of is about how an *individual* lives his or her life. You are still attempting to lump individuals into factions and force eager-to-learn outsiders to buy into your fantasy-land, which is very telling about your personality and how you view the world and yourself in it. I am happy that people like you do not seem to exist in our fan base. We have a freedom of thought and behavior that you just don’t allow yourself or your fellow fans to have. I can’t relate to the kind of personality that enjoys your mindset, or even tolerates it.
“The Timbers rest solidly on the foundation of an organically spawned fan culture that sees itself as anti-Sounders”
Nailed it in one sentence. Sounders sprang up as “pro-soccer”, mainly adults 25-35 who grew up playing soccer in the shadow of the collapse of NASL. People who found a sudden opportunity to express their love of the sport despite the “anti-soccer” crowd endured all through life.
Portland sprang up as “anti-Seattle”… and I suppose “anti-corporate”, although it isn’t mentioned that Henry Paulson is an owner. Odd that.
It would be refreshing to read a journalist who actually delves into the real nuts-and-bolts of how the Timbers became an MLS team.
Henry Paulson skimmed billions of dollars from the American economy after lobbying to get rid of New Deal-era banking reforms and leading the sub-prime mortgage charge while at Goldman Sachs, received a tax-free parachute payment when he left Goldman Sachs to work for the government, and then loaned the money to his son to buy the Portland Beavers. So not only is Henry Paulson a 20% minority owner, he also literally loaned the money to his son for the remaining 80% ownership, so for all practical purposes he is the sole owner. Furthermore, Henry Paulson put in an additional $50 million to go towards the $35 million MLS expansion fee and the family’s portion of the stadium renovation expenses. Merritt Paulson, his son, is nothing but a silver-spoon-fed figurehead who was handed a toy to play with by his financial terrorist father.
That’s just the start and doesn’t delve into the shady politics that went on during the stadium renovation battle. Portland has always had a very corrupt government that is in the pocket of real-estate developers, but the recently transplanted hipsters think that their little world is the end-all-be-all of Portland. That is why they are so easy to take advantage of. Their masters probably pull muscles while laughing as hard as they do when they hear the Timbers Army claim that they are “anti-corporate”.
Anybody that thinks that their team has some sort of non corporate indie cred is incredibly naive. These organizations don’t exist for the love of football. They exist to make money.
I was almost ready to agree with your point about the creation of authenticity until you tried to pass off Seattle’s piss-water as somehow being comparable to the beer of the MicroBrewery Capital of the World (36 breweries in the city!). Then I remembered that while the Timbers would routinely draw 10 to 13 thousand fans in their minor leagues and were into the team before the advent of corporate remake, I attended games in Qwest field in 2005 in which the Army that had traveled from Portland was almost larger than the number of Seattle fans.
Go Timbers!
Timbers did not routinely draw 10-13 thousand people. Any journalist can look up the facts and report them. Timbers averaged just over 6,000/year before the Sounders announced their MLS move, and the Sounders averaged just under 3,500/year, and that is after all the strife that we had to deal with from 1994-2000. Timbers did get a few high-attendance matches once in a while, but the Sounders also made it into the 10,000′s a few times, including both regular season games and US Open Cup games against MLS opponents.
And I’d just like to emphasize that we are basically talking about a very small window of time, as well as a very small difference in overall attendance. It is also inappropriate to compare Portland’s attendance in the years 2007-2010 without understanding context, namely that 1) Seattle was on it’s way to MLS by then, and 2) Seattle FO moved the team to small Starfire for the 2008 season. If they would have stayed at Qwest Field, the attendance would have been through the roof for a D2 team. The 2008 season opener attracted over 10,000 people.
Portland fans can keep convincing themselves of their own lies so much that they keep spouting it to outsiders who want to learn about soccer in our region, but they will eventually be revealed for who they are when those outsiders actually look at the facts. Your “identity” is full of hot air, and your chickens will come home to roost.
Are you serious? Have you even been to Portland, where you inexplicably think people drink Newcastle?
As a long-time Seahawk/Mariner fan and recent Timbers convert who has lived in Oregon his whole life, I think the Sounder fans are taking this article a little too personally.
The author was clearly trying to explain how two very different business plans are both going to provide a template for how American soccer can succeed going forward. Yes, some of the terms he used to describe Seattle had negative connotations, but I would think you guys had gotten used to that by now.
The Sounders were an instant success and the other teams hate you for it. I mean, did you watch the Superdraft? That’s not going to change. You might as well embrace it like… say Raider fans do. Or USC fans. You could also take a page from the Yankees and laugh about it. Of course, winning a few championships helps with that approach.
But really… don’t get all upset and feel like you have to defend yourselves. That seems spiteful. Just enjoy it and let’s all be happy that MLS is healthy and that none of us live in New Jersey.